Staying Resilient in Troubled Times with Jaqueline Tran from TELUS Spark
In episode 2, I have Jacqueline Tran from TELUS Spark come on to talk about being resilient and adapting a business that focuses on events and attractions during a pandemic.
She also talks about what she learned working with an agency and how that's helped her team successfully adapt to keeping their marketing initiatives in-house.
Transcript
Intro
What’s up everyone, this is the client-side where I let the marketing managers and business owners talk about their side of the marketing and client relationship. Today on the show, I have Jacqueline Tran. Jacqueline works for TELUS SPARK Science Center in Calgary. And you know, they've been going through a really tough time this year, having to temporarily close the attraction to the public. But what's amazing about TELUS spark is that they have an internal marketing team. We're all enthusiastic about the business. So we'll talk about the history she's had working with external agencies, and how that has helped her and her team continue on in their marketing efforts in-house. Enjoy the episode.
0:42 - Friendly banter to start the interview.
2:04 - We get to know Jacqueline Tran.
Jacqueline - I work in Marketing and Communications for TELUS SPARK Science Center, which is Calgary Science Center. And I actually have a background in communication. So I have a degree from the University of Calgary and I found my way into marketing. The first step, the Science Center.
Derek - Nice. And I love the Science Center. Adults Only night was the best.
Jacqueline - Ah I love it so much. And that's one of my main goals is to make science accessible to everybody.
Derek - Yeah. And it's Yeah, and oh, what was that? The bodies exhibit? Oh my god. Yeah. I like I started getting like panic attacks. I'm like, that's what that's inside me.
Jacqueline - Oh, it's fantastic. Like, I've done some pretty amazing things like I've held a human heart, a human brain.
Derek - I love how you like you went from the human heart, the human brain to the arm, like the arm is like the big crazy thing that you've done.
Jacqueline - I love it.
Derek - That's amazing. And how long have you been at TELUS park?
Jacqueline - I've actually been there for quite some time since 2016. So my journey there is is is is crazy. I started off as a facilitator, which means that I pretty much just played with kids blew things up. sideshows, research science, that was kind of my jam. And then I moved on to become the assistant, which is where I met you. I was into marketing and communications. And then I was promoted to the coordinator position. And this is where I did a lot of the MIDI marketing bits. This is where I got my experience working with external partners. I did website updates, crisis, communications, inbound marketing, you name it, I was really lucky to be a part of it. And recently, I was promoted to the specialist role. So that's why it's a long journey.
Derek - Yeah, well, congratulations. That's amazing. There's one thing that I love about you, and I don't want to put you on the spot here. But you have these segments on global television.
Jacqueline - Awwwwwe
Derek - And like, I remember I was watching with my niece one time, and they like, Oh she’s so funny!
Jacqueline - Awe that’s so sweet. Yeah. It's a blessing. That was my favorite part of my job is just that like, because I don't come from a science background, but I'm pursuing one now. And that's why I love this place so much as some I want people to get excited about science and meet people where they live. And luckily, marketing helps me do that.
4:51 - We talk about her experience working with an external marketing partner.
Jacqueline - So when I first started at Spark, I was heavily involved in being the liaison for external partners. And a lot of that had to do with ensuring both parties stuck to timelines, helping the agencies get approvals from our leadership team. And I also kind of had to play Switzerland sometimes, meaning I definitely had to problem solve and filter through different feedback and comments, varying opinions, boil that all down, and get us to a happy medium where we both parties can move forward. So that's kind of my experience there. And, you know, I work in the nonprofit industry, and Derek, you know, this nonprofit, we don't have a big budget. And so that's, um, that's really challenging when being a liaison between external partners and who I work for as well. budgeting is, is definitely the driving force of if we can even work with external partners. So throughout my journey, here, our budget has decreased. And that also means that we don't have the same opportunities to work with external partners anymore. So that's kind of where we are now.
6:34 - We talk about how Covid-19 has affected the business.
Jacqueline - Yeah, like, as I said, budget is a major thing. And, and when I first started at spark many years ago, we did rely heavily on external partners. And then each year, our budget would deplete by like 50%, and then 50% of that budget, and then 30% of that budget to the point where I really had to learn the skills that we used to rely on agencies for. So for example, content creation, writing, copy, even graphic design, are skills that I really had to learn for myself, because we started to take all of that work and internalize it because of a small budget being a nonprofit organization. So that is a huge challenge. Even more. So now, during COVID everything that we do is done in-house now. And that's not what we want. Obviously, we want to partner with other folks and, and learn from other partners, but it's just not the reality right now. And hopefully after COVID. And once we get more budget, it'll be a different story.
Derek - And you have a bit of a talented team on your end. A friend of mine works for you actually. I know. I don't know if you saw her name is Melanie and she is also a professional wrestler. I saw her wrestling video last weekend and I was like, Oh my God, what a total badass. I hope I never have to work with this person.
Jacqueline - She's like the kindest person, the biggest heart ever. I love my team and, and Derek, like, that's, that's probably the one thing that's helped me through this pandemic is, yes, we've internalized everything content creation, website, everything. But I have a very small and mighty team of four. We are all so driven, we're willing to learn, and we're willing to adapt. And that's kind of what's helped us move forward during this pandemic. Surround yourself with people that you love and good things will happen.
9:15 - We discuss the things external creative agencies need to know about working for an events and attractions company.
Jacqueline - So we are a nonprofit organization, and we heavily rely on sponsorships and donors, and supporters from the public. And that's what helps us stay afloat in our business, and so, I think like, especially with TELUS SPARK Science Center, TELUS is in our name and tell us is a massive Corporation but the misconception is, okay, well, well you've got a naming sponsor, like tell us, you must have a lot of money, we're gonna ask you for much more money for these projects. And it's, it's, I think that's one thing that I hope not only partners know, but the public knows as well as like, we are a nonprofit organization. And we don't have that the healthiest budget sometimes. And so it comes back to that classic line of like, it's not you, it's me, like, we don't have money. With that till, like, sponsors also want a lot from us. And so when we work with agency partners or external partners, we also they're not also catering to just us, they're catering to our sponsors, as well. And so there's another layer that we have to take into consideration there as well.
Derek - It's funny because I've been, you know, I just started this podcast, but I'm like, hey, to make this podcast look legit, I need to get a sponsor on board. And honestly, I've been reaching out to like, you know, local beer companies or local coffee shops, and just being like, you don't have to give me anything, I just need to use your name.
Jacqueline - Just put your name on there?
Derek - Can I just say this podcast is sponsored by x, just so that I could use your name. But it's interesting to see that TELUS is such a big name, but it doesn't mean that they're giving you know, hundreds of millions of dollars to keep the business going. Nothing against TELUS at all.
11:48 - What is Spark doing to pivot their services virtually?
Jacqueline - Yeah, so the pandemic has definitely helped us adapt and digitalize all of our offerings. This includes our school programs, even our camps are all online now. And, and it also has given us an opportunity to go global. So the events and the programs that we're doing, we're partnering with people in Africa, we're partnering with people in San Francisco in New York. And so it has definitely helped us build this extension outside of our regular Calgary community. And we've also we did something amazing, we put our spark store, which is one of our main streams of revenue right now online. And so this happened at the beginning of the first lockdown. And so good things did come out of being having this immense amount of time on our hands. But yeah, it's given us the opportunity to partner with people from all over the world, it's given us the opportunity to think about new audiences and how to reach people online. Amongst all of the noise that's going on right now.
Derek - Now that everything's remote, it's amazing that you can partner with people from, you know, across the world. Africa, you mentioned, which is, which is impressive. Okay, let's say right now, the budget was not an issue right. Now, what are some of the things that you would want from an external partner right now? Like, how could an external partner help your team do what you do?
Jacqueline - I hear this word all the time in leadership meetings and meetings with our team. But data is is a huge part of our decision-making. And people say content is king. And I think for our team data is king. And so you know, we've worked with partners that will guide us on decision making, and they'll come with like data says this, or you should do this because data says this, or here's the data for this. And that's really been the driving force for us. But aside from that, um, but beyond that, I definitely think the people and how they, how they are with us on a humanistic level is definitely something that we value in our partners, too. It's like, the first question is, would you go for drinks with this person? And that's kind of like, I don't know where I heard that. But, but it has always stuck with me. Would you go for drinks with this person? And if you say yes, work with them, if you say no, then maybe look somewhere else. But yeah, I like people. We love people and our partners are people that we want to hang out with and we want to learn from and that's always good, too.
Derek - Yeah, I guess that's the the trust-building thing, right? That's the that's pretty much custom. serve as 101 I guess you'd say, but yeah, that's, that's amazing that you know, a company even like yourselves, think that way as well.
15:24 - How can people help an attraction survive during COVID-19?
Jacqueline - I think reaching local audiences is definitely something that at least our attraction, we, we strive for and, and strengthening the Community Trust. Calgary only has one Science Center. And so I think that's something that we need support on is getting people rallied up and getting people excited about our attractions because, you know, like, I love Calgary, don't get me wrong, but we're not Toronto, we're not Vancouver. Like those people out there. Like they're, they love their city. And, and, and I think that we've got that here in Calgary too. But let's amp it up a little bit. So I think that that is definitely something that we need support on is getting the local community excited about our attractions and being proud of Calgary and being Calgarians. But also beyond that, at least our attraction we need support on reaching a global scale as well. And the spark is planning in the next five years, we're trying to become the top 10 science centers in the world. So right now we're going through renovations, we're adding new galleries, and we want to reach audiences that we never even thought that we could reach before. So I think that is something that we're strategizing and need support on from external partners.
Derek - What are some of the more successful attractions that you've brought in? Would you say in terms of, you know, the, what do you call it like gate? Like, box office or gate? Like ticket buyers? People have bought tickets? What would you say is like the record-setting attraction that you've brought in to tell a spark?
Jacqueline - Yeah, you know, the body worlds will always be number one. People love interesting abstract things that are it's hard to conceptualize. And it's, it's where else can you see a body the insights of a body unless you're like, into some freaky stuff. But like, you mean, like, this is the epitome of science. It's, it's who we are. And beyond that body worlds helps you connect yourself to the world and to science, quite literally. So that has by far been our most successful exhibition and partner.
Derek - What type of marketing do you think you need to drive that awareness or drive that attraction to something like that, like, to me, that is something like that just speaks for itself? Like, oh, you're gonna see this dog skeleton? It's really interesting. And, um, check it out.
Jacqueline - Yeah, that's the thing, like, body worlds definitely did do some of the marketing itself just because of its concept. But we tried multiple things in, in other campaigns, to with our, with our traveling exhibitions, we try pulling everything into just social and just digital. And then but for me, I think that we need a mixture of all the things we need traditional marketing, we need print, marketing, and advertising. We need rap cards. Let's do a little bit of everything get on Google. And that's how we get the best bang for our buck. But that campaign also comes with a lot of a big budget. But we've done that with body worlds. And the last time we did billboards, and digital, and a mix of traditional media was the Wales campaign, which is with the agency that I met us. And that was the last time that we did something to that scale. And it's definitely been challenging not having your toes dipped in all of those pools to market.
Derek - Yeah, totally. I agree. So what are you doing now to get your general public excited about TELUS Spark?
Jacqueline - Most of it is word of mouth and reconnecting with our previous ticket purchasers or teachers who have booked with us before. So it's a lot of remarketing because we don't have a budget to reach new audiences. And when we do have a little bit of money from sponsors, we will, we'll do a lot of Google ads, Facebook marketing, and it's all digital marketing at the moment.
Derek - And you’re doing that all by yourself?
Jacqueline - Just internally. That's right. Yeah, it's unfortunate. Like one day we will get to a point where we can work with external partners again, but right now it's all in-house.
Derek - It goes to show you don't necessarily need to work with an agency but being able to get some outside ideas from an agency is always nice, but there aren't things that you can't do on your own right.
Jacqueline - That is true, but you know what, like I haven't worked with agencies in a while, but when I did, I remember that. That's where I learned the most. That's pretty much where I gained all of my knowledge about traditional media. And like prior to meeting you, Derek, I had no idea that you could advertise your thing on a billboard, or I had no idea. Like, these are just simple concepts that, obviously we all know now, but I had no idea and agencies definitely opened my eyes to that. But beyond that, the creative stuff, the creative juices that came from agencies, is are those are things that I'll never forget working with agencies. And yeah, like conceptualizing creatives, helping us build the campaign, analyzing it afterward. These are all things that I miss when working with agencies and partners,
Derek - Yeah, so my takeaway there really is, you know, it's important for the agency to educate the client as well, right? So we want to set you up for success. We don't want to just say, hey, without us, you can't do anything. We want to make sure that you're able to, you're able to learn from the agencies or learn from the marketing firms or consultants, too, so that you can do successful things on your own as well. You know, once again, there's that building of that trust thing again, when the time is right. Because you know, there's some value there, you'll come back to the agency and say, hey, yeah, let's get back together. Yeah, I love that. Cool. So you know, you do it all you do marketing, communications, PR, you do some content creation of your own. You show up on local television, I've seen some of the online stuff that you do, where you dress up in your lab coat. But really, what keeps you up at night?
Jacqueline - How much the marketing industry has changed, even from yesterday. That definitely keeps me up at night. Things are changing all the time. And I read a quote somewhere that said that marketers will have to relearn everything five years from now. And that terrifies me because I am a creature of habit. I like structure. I like knowing things the way that I know them. But that definitely keeps me up at night, because there's still so much to learn. And as I mentioned, I don't have a marketing background. I didn't come from a marketing, analytical data-driven background, I came from a comms background. And so I really had to start from scratch. And there's still so much to learn. And yeah, like, it's the list goes on. And I recently got a Skillshare subscription, because this is truly something that keeps me up at night, I need to learn more about the digital world about marketing, there's so much too much that you get lost sometimes.
Derek - And you mentioned earlier, you're also getting into science more. Can you tell me a bit about that?
Jacqueline - Yeah, so I'm currently pursuing a Bachelor of Science. It all stemmed from working at the Science Center, I love this place. He knows it's like I love the Science Center. And part of my marketing there is to get people more interested in science and no one's gonna listen to me if I don't have the background. But what I can do is amplify other people's research on science. And that's, that's, that's my main goal
23:56 - How can the general public help TELUS Spark?
Jacqueline - That's a great question. And thank you for asking, visit sparkscience.ca. We've got tons of programming online for kids. donations are always being accepted as well. And we're nonprofit, and we highly depend on the support of the community. And you know, what, just being in the know of what's going on at spark would help tremendously. Word of mouth goes a long way. And we're always appreciative of the people that support us.
Derek - Any new online offerings?
Jacqueline - Yeah, so we're, we're partnering with a photographer from Africa. Yes, he's an incredible award-winning photographer, and he's doing a program for students all about the beetle count, which is one of his inventions. He created this contraption where he can go really close to a lion and not get eaten, but take pictures. So he's, he's one of our upcoming events. And we also have something called Operation Minerva. So we connect females or students who identify as female with mentors from Calgary and all over mentors in science. So connecting young girls with female mentors.
Derek - Awesome! Thank you so much, Jacqueline. I really appreciate you coming on the show.
Jacqueline - Well, thank you very much, Derek. This is a lot of fun. Yeah.
Outro
Derek - Jacqueline is always so great to talk to you. And I was super excited having her on this podcast. Some of the takeaways I got out of this discussion.
1) You know, budgets can change for multiple reasons. And that might end a client-agency relationship for the time being. But the learnings the client received working with an agency has helped them keep their business running long term. So they might just come back when the budget is there again. So it's always important throughout the client and agency partner relationship, that you educate your client as you go, build that trust with them. And they'll come back to you as their trusted adviser. So keep that going.
2) Nonprofits rely on sponsorships and donors. And that's nothing new. But you know, that doesn't mean they have large budgets to spend. The large naming sponsor really doesn't give the external partner the ability to ask for more budget. So try not to be greedy, be empathetic, and help them out.
3) The third one is having to pivot your business can be a real struggle and frustrating, you know, we all know that. But as we've seen from TELUS Spark, adapting can be a good thing. You know, now they've got international partners to help them create more content for their audiences to consume, and it's been really great for them.
4) Data is a huge part of every business, utilizing data to help justify decision making is super important. But the biggest thing is that people who are good humans and people you can trust will always have the most influence on their business. So, you know, just do what you can to become that trusted adviser for your client.
TELUS Spark in Calgary is doing a lot of things right now. And I encourage you to support their business. You know, check out their virtual programs, leave reviews, I think they'll be having an all ages drive-in movie program starting this summer, which is really cool. You know, follow them on their social channels, subscribe on their website, learn more about their attractions, and share it, share it with the, you know, your family and friends in Calgary and share them with your family and friends out of Calgary. Because, you know, everything's virtual now, and, you know, they would appreciate the support, I'm sure. Thanks again for tuning in this week. Tune in to the next episode, where I speak to a gentleman named Rob Park, who is the Chief Operating Officer at Helcim. So wholesome build payment services for businesses, and we're going to talk about his role as COO and their approach to delivering great customer service to their clients. Anyways, I'm Derek Hovinga, from The Inbound Lab and I'll talk to you next time.